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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:33 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Old Northwest (Michigan)
The below advert was posted by Curt Schmidt on the Authentic Campaigner yesterday. He has a Garrett Sharps lockplate with functioning pellet primer (std. feature on the Garretts--you can check my article posted on the forum for historical background) for sale.

You may recall that I posted a link to a rare, early imported Pederosoli that had a functioning pellet primer that was unmarked. My comrades and I suspect that it was (a) either a prototype model (using a Ped with left over lockplate/primer parts from the Italian made Garretts) for US importers to view for possible production, or (b) a 'kit up' of a Ped with 'add on Garrett parts' by a NSSA shooter. However, the lack of stamps made us believe the former was the most likely situation.

I don't know if if the Garrett lockplate that Curt has for sale would fit a Ped 'out of the box' but you could check with Curt. I honestly don't know if it would fit a Armi-Sport Sharps, but I tend to think that it would not. My thought is that a Ped would be the first likely choice.

It is missing the mainspring, but one of the new breed of Sharps could fit it. If anyone is really interested in buying the plate, but uncertain about the mainspring issue, please send me a PM. I own an original NM1863 carbine, a Garrett (Thanks again, Dave) and a Shiloh--I can remove the mainsprings off my original/Shiloh to see if they fit the Garrett plate. I can also see if the Garrett plate will fit the Shiloh mortise without needing to do any inletting. IF YOUR REALLY interested, I can ask Dan to borrow Brian's "Old Busted" Ped and try fitting his Garrett plate to "OB" 'as is'. I can then send you along the information to guide your decision.

Good hunting!

Bill Skillman
Randolph Mess/Hudson Squad-USSS


Garret Sharps lock inquiry
Hallo!

Whom among you emailed or PM'd me a while back asking about a Garrett Sharps lock?
I ended up deleting it while house cleaning a while back, and wanted to give that lad first dibs before I put it up for WTS. From Janaury 2010:

Hallo!

WTS: Reproduction NM1859 or NM1863 Sharps lock by "Garrett," with two lockplate screws.

This is a chance to improve your Sharps carbine or rifle with a a lock that has a functional Lawrence pellet primer mechanism as per the originals.

It does NOT have a mainspring and a repro one would have to be added. The previous owner took off the mainspring to build up a original lock with it.
I do not know what repro Sharps mainsprings will fit as I never tried, but suspect Shiloh Sharps. I would take or send the lock to have one fitted.

Also, Garrett locks were a drop-in fit for the old repro Sile Sharps, but I do not know about today's repro's so some fitting or cosmetic work may possibly be needed.

$175.00, postage paid.

Money orders only, please.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:08 am 
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'morning folks,

This lock came back up for sale on the AC forum, and I was lucky enough to get it. It arrived today. :D

It is missing a few screws that I can see, the spring inside the actual primer cavity, and of course the mainspring. Does anyone have an exploded diagram of "just" the lock with primer system? Alternately an exploded diagram of Sharps with lock & primer system? Figure if I'm going to be hunting parts, I may as well hunt all of the parts at the same time...

Thanks,
Calum

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Calum Munro

40th PVI, 11th Reserves, Co F
http://www.facebook.com/reserve.companyf

1st USSS, Co H
http://nyberdans.wix.com/nyberdans


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Sergeant

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:33 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Old Northwest (Michigan)
Cal and Fellow Sharpshooters;

I don't have a 'blow up' schematic, but can send you photos of my Garrett lockplate and the various parts for the Lawrence pellet primer. The really big issue will be finding Garrett parts--they are rarer than a complete original pellet primer system (I have yet to find a Sharps with its orignal, intact pellet primer system).

You might try the Bill Osborne of Lodgewood Firearms. He carries lots of original and repop parts for most CW weapons. All parts for the pellet primer will be expensive; as I found by trying to restore my original NM1863 carbine. It took me 10 years from purchasing the first parts (spring, top cover, top cover screw) to getting the pellet feeder, (this is the part that fits the mortise in the hammer and pushes the pellet from the resevoir onto the cone). I bought the parts from Dixie, S&S Firearms, and the feeder arm from a guy at the Mansfield Ohio CW Collectors show.

You might modify original pellet primer parts. You can try the early Ped Sharps parts to fit the missing ones for the Garrett (at least the lockplate innards). Because Pederosoli started out using the original Garrett dies and tooling, this might help you. There used to be a company in Massachusetts called Flintlocks, Inc. They sent me a schematic of a Ped and I ordered a few replacement parts from them. I don't know if they are still in business.

You could also post on the North South Skirmish Assoc website; there are guys who might be able to help you in your quest.

Anyway, if you can give me a week after my SUVCW Camp's shoot ad I'll disassemble the Garrett to take the photos of the lockplate, pellet primer parts, etc.

Bill Skillman
Hudson Mess-USSS


Last edited by Bill Skillman on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Thanks Bill - contacting Lodgewood was one of the first things I did, even before posting here. Ironically, the best schematic they could suggest was the one David has on this site. :)

Part of my problem is, I don't know the proper terminology for all of the parts.

Thanks again,
Calum

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Calum Munro

40th PVI, 11th Reserves, Co F
http://www.facebook.com/reserve.companyf

1st USSS, Co H
http://nyberdans.wix.com/nyberdans


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Sergeant

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:33 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Old Northwest (Michigan)
Cal and Fellow Sharpshooters.

There are 8 component parts to the Lawrence pellet feeder system. Using Winston O. Smith's terminology they are:

14. Pellet Feeder Cover Spring
15. Pellet Feeder Cover and screw
16. Pellet Feeder
17. Pellet Feeder Cut-off
18. Pellet Feeder Cut-off screw

19. Magazine Plunger
20. Magazine Plunger spring
21. Magazine Plunger screw

The magazine is the recess in the lockplate that holds the primers. They are pushed upwards by the Plunger/spring; and secured inside by the MP screw at the botom.

Describing how the Feeder parts fit together is much more complicated. I bought the pellet feeder cover and screw, and PF cover spring, the cut off and cut-off screw (in addition to the magazine parts) and that did fine. Try go get a Dixie or S&S paper catalog to help you visualize the Lawrence pellet feeder parts. Even pulling my Garrett apart and putting it back together again was a challenge. Here are the parts listed on the Lodgewood page. REMEMBER-ORIGINALPARTS MIGHT NOT FIT A MODERN REPRODUCTION!!! CHECK WITH THE GUNSMITH/OWNER.

PELLET PRIMER CUT OFF / Lawrence primer system/ reproduction to fit original $25.00
PELLET PRIMER FEED PLUNGER / reproduction to fit original $15.00
PELLET FEED COVER / ORIGINAL $15.00
PELLET FEED COVER SCREW OUT OF STOCK $ 10.00
PELLET FEED COVER SPRING $15.00
PELLET FEED BOTTOM SCREW $15.00
PELLET FEED INTERNAL PRIMER SPRING /reproduction to fit original $20.00


Bill Skillman
Hudson Squad Mess-USSS


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:16 am 
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Thanks Bill - I'll see if I can't find one of the paper cataloges (probably just order a Dixie one with my next order - the lock's not a rush). In the mean time, I'll keep searching the internet for a complete exploded (and preferably labled) diagram.

Calum

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Calum Munro

40th PVI, 11th Reserves, Co F
http://www.facebook.com/reserve.companyf

1st USSS, Co H
http://nyberdans.wix.com/nyberdans


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:12 am 
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Sergeant

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:33 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Old Northwest (Michigan)
Cal,

Way ahead of you. If you can hold on until this weekend I'll be sending Dave another photo installment. This time it will be a comparison between the Garrett and original Lawrence pellet feeder parts and assembly instructions. It was your post that inspired me to do the investigation. Where, in all the USSS and Sharps info out there, have you ever read anything on how to assemble a Lawrence pellet feeder system from its component parts? The Co. C Forum will have it.

Bad news---I disassembled both pellet systems and I checked to see how many were interchangable between both Garrett and Original Sharps. Unfortunately I discovered that only 1 of 8 parts fit without any modification; the rest had enough millimeters difference to make it impractical (or impossible) to modify to fit the other lockplate. So, regretably, this puts you in the hunt for Garrett pellet feeder parts for your Garrett lockplate. Unless you know of a skilled tool maker? They could use the photos to recreate pellet feeder parts (I can provide the measurements of each piece if needed).

I didn't check to see if the original mainspring could be substituted for the Garrett. I seem to recall in one of the early Sharps posts, one of the boys mentioning that he was able to install an original mainspring to replace the one that broke in his Armi-Sport.

Bill Skillman
Hudson Squad-USSS


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:44 am 
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Thanks Bill - I can definitely wait! I think I'm only missing the Feed Cut Off and associated screw, and the Magazine Plunger and spring, so it's mostly there.

Oh, and I'm the one who installed the original mainspring in the Armi. Had to clearance the stock just a hair (inside the cavity, not the surface area that mates with the lock plate). One of my other Armi's has a weak mainspring, so I'll be doing it again. I'm curious to see if it was just a smaller inlet on the first one, or if I have to clearance this one as well.

Calum

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Calum Munro

40th PVI, 11th Reserves, Co F
http://www.facebook.com/reserve.companyf

1st USSS, Co H
http://nyberdans.wix.com/nyberdans


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:50 am
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Location: KOP, PA
One possible source for a full schematic of the system might be the US Patent Office. If a patent was filed for, a schematic would have very likely been submitted.

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Pvt. Jeremiah Boring
Company B, 1st USSS Regt.


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